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The Piano Men
12/10/1997 3:00 AM, Yahoo! Music
Dave DiMartino
Ben Folds Five, which, contrary to popular belief is a trio, hails from that
thriving indie hotbed of Chapel Hill, North Carolina, with a sound that's zany
and simple: one bass, one drummer and 88 rippin' piano keys. LAUNCH executive
editor Dave DiMartino sat down with the man himself, singer-songwriter-pianist
Ben Folds--as well as bassist Robert Sledge and drummer Darren Jessee--to
discuss this band's keyboard legacy, the burden of being dubbed
"retro" and the age-old quandary of losing that treasured black
t-shirt to a bitter ex-girlfriend. Read and listen to the insightful commentary
proffered up by these eccentric Southern gentlemen whose new album,
Whatever And Ever Amen
, was recently released by 550 Music.
LAUNCH:
Very few successful rock bands are trios. Tell me about the advantages and
disadvantages of this format.
BEN:
The three-piece format, live, is kind of an illusion. It always has
been--like the
Police--if you listen to the live board tapes, they're never
really that good because the amount of energy it takes to translate live to an
audience isn't necessarily musical all the time. That's the drawback--that
feeling like you're not playing something that people can play back later and
enjoy like "An Evening With Ben Folds Five!" How many times do you
see the Police, live, on TV these days? But they were such a great live
band.
DARREN:
The upside of being in a trio is there's only three of you, so we show up to a
club and everyone assumes there's five of us, so there's plenty more food and
beer for us. The downside would be, uh, I don't know what the downside would
be. The downside would be a clever answer that I can't think of right now.
ROBERT:
The downside is lighting--sometimes I get forgotten about in lighting. All the
lights are on Ben, and now with his wife running lights, I'm sure that will be
no different.
LAUNCH:
Since you guys prominently feature a piano in your band, a lot of people
probably think your biggest influences are pianists. What kind of music
influences you guys and the music of Ben Folds Five?
DARREN:
I think it's pretty wide really. I know that Ben was very into
Neil Sedaka
,
Randy Newman
, early
Elton John . Basically, the band encompasses so much
music, we share many of the same influences. We've all been in different bands
that are extremely different from what we're doing now.
ROBERT:
The whole idea of composing and performing on piano, you can do it in a very
Rickie Lee Jones
or
Tori Amos
way, but if you want to make pop music,
it's going to sound a certain way. I'm more of a
Jesus Lizard
fan on
bass.
BEN:
I don't think other piano players are as much of an influence on me as might be
perceived on first listen. If nothing else, pianists are messengers of melody.
You're going to learn about melody from people who are really good at writing
it, and the piano guys are really good at it. But there are other things that
are very influential on the band that aren't piano at all--like
Nirvana (Punk)--even melodically. Kurt Cobain was a really, really cool writer.
Another band, Built To Spill , they'd just made their first record when we
were making our first record, and it was melodic and they didn't apologize for
it.
Barbra Streisand is an influence, so are Rickie Lee Jones, Randy Newman
and Jimi Hendrix , for that matter.
LAUNCH:
Whatever And Ever Amen marked your move to the majors. How did you find
the experience in comparison to the indie scene?
DARREN:
We actually had more freedom recording Whatever And Ever Amen on a major
label. We recorded it in our house and gave them the record when we were done
with it. We kind of went with this label so we could do everything
ourselves...and we wanted gobs of money, of course.
ROBERT:
Once you get on a major you find that you're on every billboard, newsprint,
video magazine and CD-ROM-interactive-thing you can imagine. The majors are
like a million-legged octopus. It's really bad what they do.
BEN:
Well, with the majors you get the limousines, the
two-or-three-girls-with-blonde-hair kind of thing, a pool--although we never
had a pool in the back of the limo. Other than that, it's basically the same as
recording for an independent. It really is. There's more money to do things,
and you may get little martini drinks with umbrellas and stuff, but otherwise,
it's the same process. We wanted to keep it to the same thing: we're making
music and someone's putting it out.
LAUNCH:
Going back to what Darren just said: You recorded this album at home? How
come?
ROBERT:
Well, making records is a real personal thing. We didn't want to go to a studio
and deal with a producer and engineer and explain why we were going to do
something stupid in a minute, and deal with people who wanted to go home when
we wanted to keep working. We worked with the same producer, and we did it in
Ben's house--it's just a small brick house, not really fancy, no arched
ceilings, no air flow in the house at all--it made things more personal,
simple. We could stay up till seven o'clock in the morning.
BEN:
And as a result, I don't have a home anymore, I had to move out. I thought,
"I could live in the studio," and that'd be okay, "If I'm a
little crazed, that's okay. That will make it artier." That's not a good
way to record--recording in your house. It was really good for us, this
particular go-round. Because of going to a major label, we knew there was more
at stake, so we stayed at home where we could keep our focus--our pacifier, our
blanket. Next time we'll be grown up enough to go to a real studio. In a real
studio, there's speakers and all this crap. Everything's real dramatic.
LAUNCH:
In reading a lot of press about you guys, I kept coming across the description
of your music as "retro." How valid a description is that and how do
you feel about being labeled such?
ROBERT:
I have a romantic notion about what retro is. I never wanted to be
Lenny Kravitz or the
Beatles
. I like the classic, early Broadway or
Gershwin-ish songwriting. I can't do it, but Ben is really good at writing
that stuff; it appeals to a lot of people without smoke and mirrors. We're more
retro than retro, actually.
DARREN:
Retro? What does it mean really? I think it's just ridiculous. I mean, I don't
wear vintage clothing. Well, I dowear vintage clothing. But I don't play
vintage instruments, although my drums are old. Everything we do is
fresh. No one's used piano before. Well, a few people have...
BEN:
I think the bands who are overtly retro know what they're doing and would take
it as a compliment--I'd hope--unless they're that pretentious. I like reference
points. This is a very college-oriented age, artwise, in general. I think
there's too much emphasis on propelling music into the future for a rock band.
When people think critically, one of the first things they think is: Is
this the future? Who knows? Does it matter? Is it refreshing musically? I don't
think it's that important that you move forward musically. I don't think people
who are moving forward even know.
LAUNCH:
Speaking of those who think critically, your first album got a lot of rave
reviews. How have you found the press on this CD?
BEN:
I didn't ever see a bad review on the first record, which is kind of cool, but
it's also a little scary on the second record. I've seen some way harsh, bad
reviews on the second record. Most of them are pretty respectful: "These
guys are geniuses and all, but I really think they're stupid." And the
hometown writers, forget about that--they kill us. One guy wrote, "The
only good thing to come out of this record is that I have something to say to
the cashier when I return it, which is, 'Give me back my money, you
bitch.'"
LAUNCH:
A lot of your songs are like little stories. How much of what you write comes
from your own life experience?
BEN:
I exaggerate a lot. I'm not a big fan of taking exactly what happened note for
note and regurgitating it in a song, but everything I write does come from real
life. I'm not that creative that I can make up a whole different
life.
ROBERT:
He does put on a mask on so you can't tell exactly who the people are in a
certain song. If he does mention their name, he does it in reverse. People do
like to hear their names in songs, and if it flies by and it's incriminating,
they don't usually care. My ex-roommate was in one of his songs.
DARREN:
Ben writes everything, except for those lyrics at night when I climb into his
bunk and whisper them into his ear, like "Song For The Dumped."
LAUNCH:
That's a great song. Very universal.
DARREN:
That song is basically a true story: You go out to dinner, and you pay for
dinner, and the whole time the person you're taking out knows they never want
to see you again. They just want the free dinner. But the most important thing
is--you will never get back your black t-shirt after you break up. All guys
know you will lose clothing in a relationship.
ROBERT:
Women like that song the most. Guys get a little nervous.
BEN:
I always love those lyrics.
LAUNCH:
Have you ever heard from the girl you wrote it about?
DARREN:
I think she has heard it and I think she just doesn't care.
LAUNCH:
Tell me the wildest thing you've ever seen while performing.
There was a time when we were playing in San Diego--one of our first
tours--there was a point where Ben would jump up and stand on his piano. In
this particular instance, the leg fell off and it cracked and fell down. That
was the end of the show! Not a glamorous end. There were only 15 people there
and they didn't seem to care too much.
ROBERT:
I saw a guy peeing one time in Iowa City. First, he reached out to shake my
hand--he was so into the monster handshake, like the kind you get in a sports
bar--and I almost missed my intro on bass. I could tell he was really wasted.
Next thing I know, he was looking down, peeing, then he got ejected from the
club. That was weird. That was the same night that Ben was climbing from this
thing that was suspended by chains, and all these record company people and
management people were there and everyone thought for sure he would die. So I
saw a guy pee and I saw Ben risk his life. All in one night.
LAUNCH:
Now that you've gotten some success, I bet a lot of people on the indie circuit
accuse you of selling out. What's your definition of the big sell-out? And do
you think it will ever happen?
DARREN:
That's when we go and we get the liposuction, and all our tans, and our
implants, and get our lips shot, which is what I'm doing later today.
That's when we sell out.
BEN:
When we start making truly really geeky records--people who came up with this
geek-rock thing have no idea how geeky it can get--that's when it'll happen. I
don't know. For me, it would be making a big, huge, blown-up, pumped-up,
super-steroid version of what has made us successful--big, huge piano
sound--that would be, to me, the sell-out. "We really are mean, we're here
to show you."
LAUNCH:
You guys came out of the Chapel Hill scene. That seems like a cool place.
DARREN:
There's a lot of good bands there. There always have been in North Carolina, so
it's a very healthy music scene. It's a good place to play and be from. We've
got bands like
Squirrel Nut Zippers
,
Archers Of Loaf ...
ROBERT:
Chapel Hill is kind of a small town. In order to stand out, you have to be a
rock star or have a movie star image. Everyone there is kind of unique. You
know how when you go to a small town, there's always one lady with a fruit hat,
one of those people who's a real fixture around town? Well, we have all kinds
of people like that. Plus, it's a neat place to be because there's a college,
and there's a lot of neat bookstores, video stores and restaurants--plenty of
places to work if you didn't graduate from college, if you're not a genius.
BEN:
I'm really proud of it. There's a ton of bands that are really original and who
are doing really well. I don't see these people that often--we're all on tour
all the time--now and then you see them in the grocery store; around the beer
and the ice cream, there's always a little circle of whoever's not on tour
right now.
LAUNCH:
What were you guys doing before this band took off?
BEN:
I did a short stint in The Buddy Holly Story, the off- off-Broadway
version in New York, by the time it hit rock bottom. I was in Nashville for
awhile, playing drums in a band. I've always been writing songs since I was
little.
DARREN:
Before this band, I was in another band in Chapel Hill and I bussed tables at
this restaurant. The band was How Town. It was not very popular...my mom liked
it.
ROBERT:
I was flipping burgers, you know, the usual thing. I was in sort of a punk rock,
big drum, punk rock band called Toxic Popsicle. Fun band.
LAUNCH:
What's the last record you bought? Or do you even buy records?
DARREN:
I do buy records. The last record I bought was the Muppet Show in
1971.
ROBERT:
I bought a
Cherry Poppin' Daddies
swing record. The Best Of
Baroque, I bought that. I'm looking for Bartok's Hungarian
Sketches.
BEN:
I bought about five of them: a
Nick Drake
record, the Eels
, a
Joe Henry
record. What else did I get? I don't remember. That's enough.
LAUNCH:
Do you compute?
DARREN:
I don't, but Robert does. Him and his girlfriend do that a lot. The computer
thing.
ROBERT:
My girlfriend got a really nice computer. We sit around forever goofing around
on it. I'm a novice, she's a bad-ass on the computer. She knows all about them
things.
BEN:
Our manager showed us the website and couldn't get past this one point. Things
were flashing on the screen and we were like, "Wow! There's a fan club
called Magical Armchair." It's not a band-started thing, someone else
started it. You can play a show one night, and people show up the next night
and bust you for saying the same thing two nights in a row. I'll learn how to
type first. I did it once and went blind.
LAUNCH:
Before you were in a successful band, did you sit around and think to yourself,
"I'll know I've made it when..."?
DARREN:
Well, yesterday I would have said, "When I know I've gone to the right
hotel." We stopped the bus between two hotels the other day, and I was
looking for the hotel room. I knocked on the door and some guy from the Coast
Guard answered. They were on leave or something. I arrived at the wrong place.
What was the question? [continues] I'll know we've made it when my grandmother
hears us. At that point, I'll feel like I've arrived. When my grandmother calls
and says she's heard us on the radio, and that I should really consider going
back to school.
ROBERT:
I guess some people would say, "[I know I've made it when] I sold out
Madison Square Garden four nights in a row." I guess when the band really
has something that we feel is a great song--and it goes to No. 1. I think
that's so rare: whenever someone in the pop world writes a great song, and the
rest of the world thinks it's a great song, too. That's so rare. Usually it's
like, "Yeah, I wrote this song in three minutes, it's not my favorite
song." And that's the one that goes to No. 1.
LAUNCH:
What's the next big trend in music?
DARREN:
I think the next big trend is piano-based trios.
ROBERT:
Acoustic-folk-world music with Moog synthesizers all created to dislodge the
public from...Forget it. Ben Fold Five is the next biggest thing, everyone
knows that! Whatever we do will be the next biggest thing; I don't know
what it is, but it will be huge.
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